Curse

Manfred · Dec 05, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Of course, the classic R/N touch build has to be included.
Using high expertise to offset the high cost of necromancer touch *skills* (not spells, thus affeted by expertise) this build is one of my favorites to run for a variety of purposes in pvp and pve, from flag runner to secondary tank. Most purposes can be achieved with a few modifications.
12 Blood Magic
11+4 Expertise
6+1 Wilderness Survival

Touch of Agony(blood)
Vampiric Touch(blood)
Plague Touch(unlinked)
Throw Dirt(expertise)
Offering Of Blood[e](blood)
Dodge(expertise)

And here we get into foggy areas. Cureently we have a sustainable, high dps, nearly condition proof touch range havoc-wreaker. But there are secondary purposes that can be served by these alst 2 slots, and they usually have to do with those 7 points of Wilderness Survival. In everything but GvG, slot 7 is a ressurection signet(unlinked), and options for the last slot include:

Barbed or Flame Trap (Wilderness Survival): Barbed trap is a decent pvp option for when you're untargeted, it gives degen and cripples. Flame trap is higher damage if you can get people stuck, but it's real use is in PvE, where it exploits the AoE change to scare away monsters from sensitive targets.

Healing Spring or Well of Blood (Wilderness survival and Blood Magic, respectively): these are used to supplement healers, well of blood being powerful but more conditional: it needs a corpse. Also, well of blood is a higher cost. I recommend Healing spring, although in 8v8 areas well of blood works well.

Storm Chaser (WS): For annoying griefers in 4v4 areas. Highly recommended for 4v4 places or flag running.

Whirling Defence (Expertise): To keep you alive in PvE.

Strategy: The strategy is to rush in with dodge and begin alternating between your two damage-dealing touches. Use Plague Touch to return conditions and Throw Dirt to save soft targets such as monks. If under fire yourself throw on dodge and power away, or if merely incidental damage, do a few cycles of touches without using touch of agony. This reduces damage output but heals significantly. Use Offering of Blood[e] whenever your mana is more than 10 below max.

The weaknesses of this build are few and far between, which is a big goal of this setup. Hexes will stymie this to a certain extent, although spell-hating hexes such as backfire do not affect skills. Long ranged armor piercing damage in general is this build's weakness, i.e. energy surge and burn. Kiting is also a problem, though crippled can be gotten rid of on nearby warriors with plague touch.

I would like to credit the Guild Wars community for this (it was listed as a traditional flag-running option by twicky kid I believe) and myself for the sustainable blood-only version.

Murder In China · Dec 05, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Serpent's Quickness would be nice if you aren't under massive fire power ( since SQ is a stance).

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 05, 2005, 06:28 AM // 06:28

16 Expertise
12 Blood
rest who cares

Touch of Agony
Vamp Touch
Throw Dirt
Life Transfer
Plague Touch
Whirling Defense
Dodge
Res Sig

That just about sums up an R/N for 4v4. Some use a pet, some use offering of blood, some use Life Siphon, some use QZ. For me they are all gimped compared.

Al the Dead · Dec 05, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

ermmm sorry guys but what's so good in that build? i met it numerous times in CA and TA and rarely loosed to it with any of my chars really. Somebody care to explain how to use that .... on arena?

fallot · Dec 05, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

My touch R/N:

12+1+2 or 12+1+3 expertise
12 blood
3+1 wilderness

Touch of Agony
Vampiric Touch
Signet of Agony
Plague Touch
Troll Unguent/Free Slot
Escape (Elite)
Whirling Defense
Res Signet/Throw Dirt/Free Slot

Troll Unguent might seem useless but it gives +5 health regeneration with 4 points in wilderness, useful when you've been hit by Conjure Phantasm, Life Transfer etc.

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 05, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Dead

ermmm sorry guys but what's so good in that build? i met it numerous times in CA and TA and never loosed to it with any of my chars really. Somebody care to explain how to use that .... on arena?

I rarely lose when I use it, heh. Contradictary to your claims, only if I get a bad random team do I have issues. Reasons:

1. You are a ranger, almost always last to be targetted.
2. You have the best anti-elemental armor in the game.
3. Hexes that affect casting or attacking are useless against you (Empathy, Backfire, Spirit Shackles, Pacifism, etc.)
4. You bath in conditions and pass them along.
5. Blind does not affect you.
6. Each of your attacks does 50+ damage and ignores armor and defensive stances and skills like Guardian, Protective Spirit, etc.
7. You can chase down runners, you can hex runners with -7 degen before you chase them down.
8. You have defensive stances like Whirling Defense and Dodge and you carry Throw Dirt.

What can do more damage faster? 2 Air eles or a Necro Aura Bomber. Do Air Eles or Necros get attacked before a R/N? Yes. You are left to do the devil's work.

Lou · Dec 05, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I use mostly the samr build with 10 in blood and 16 in beastmastery and the rest into expertise. I use ferocious strike and some other skills that I can spam. It works pretty well as you take down casters pretty fast and tanks have a very hard time killing you.

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 05, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azeroths Hammer

I use mostly the samr build with 10 in blood and 16 in beastmastery and the rest into expertise. I use ferocious strike and some other skills that I can spam. It works pretty well as you take down casters pretty fast and tanks have a very hard time killing you.

I ran another version that used Crippling Shot as the elite and dropped Dodge for Distracting Shot. It worked pretty well. I simply had 4-5 pts in Marksmanship since the skills used were for specific effects and not damage.

jibikao · Dec 05, 2005, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Dead

ermmm sorry guys but what's so good in that build? i met it numerous times in CA and TA and never loosed to it with any of my chars really. Somebody care to explain how to use that .... on arena?

What's your class and build? Touchy build is a great faction farming build but it's not invincible. No build is invincible.

If you are a IW Mesmer, then you may have a chance since most touchy rangers don't bring strip enchantment.

Manfred · Dec 06, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17

yeah. Caster shutdown fails, but kiting+degen hexes is pretty much THE way this dies. This beats out tpical IW, higher damage, self healing, yadda yadda.

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 06, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manfred

yeah. Caster shutdown fails, but kiting+degen hexes is pretty much THE way this dies. This beats out tpical IW, higher damage, self healing, yadda yadda.

The way this dies is when you hit that unbelievable random team with a Mantra of Resolve Trapper, Hex mesmer and high damage output warrior with a competent heal monk. Then again, what doesn't lose to it? You also lose when you get the n00bkr3w....this happens more often than I care to remember. However as long as you get a semi-competent group you will do very well.

Al the Dead · Dec 06, 2005, 08:33 AM // 08:33

N/W - death + tactics. Vile touch hits hard + when he reaches me he has 50% of health left so final trust is there waiting for him

Not mentioning corpses
R/* - beastmaster. total interrupt of ALL of these touch skills with a little 20 secs extra recharge. End of story

Me/W - mazohisto dominator (hey look, this guy using a scullbreaker)deversion 2 times and end of story as well

60 sec recharge time ^_^

Guess i'm simply in luck with my builds against this one. But this build due to constant spamming of skills is an ideal target for any interrupter. And if u loose even 1 of your touch skills...

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 06, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Dead

N/W - death + tactics. Vile touch hits hard + when he reaches me he has 50% of health left so final trust is there waiting for him

Not mentioning corpses

How is Vile touch gonna reduse his life by 50% before he reaches you? What the hell does Tactics have to do with anything in this match up?

Quote:

R/* - beastmaster. total interrupt of ALL of these touch skills with a little 20 secs extra recharge. End of story

How do you interrupt through Whirling Defense? Dodge? Bow rangers are the Touch Ranger's meal of choice.

Quote:

Me/W - mazohisto dominator (hey look, this guy using a scullbreaker)devergence 2 times and end of story as well

60 sec recharge time ^_^

You can't block both skills, nor the Life Transfer. Even then you have to get lucky that he will use that skill once the hex lands. If Diversion lands on me I stop for 6 seconds and it leaves. Big deal.

Quote:

Guess i'm simply in luck with my builds against this one. But this build due to constant spamming of skills is an ideal target for any interrupter. And if u loose even 1 of your touch skills...

No, you are FOS. You obviously don't PvP in small arena. I chew mesmers and rangers up all day long. Aura Bomber Necros and a seriously potent Air Ele with a complimental crew are about all that can take the build down. This is if I don't have a competent monk. If I do you can pack your bags.

Al the Dead · Dec 06, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

wow such critisism. Well arguing always fun so let the spam begin ^_^
1 - where did u see that it's vile that reduces him to 50%? there are ton of other spell ya know. Tactics allows free and effective healing as touch build doesn't take armor in the account it deals no additional damage.
2 - not mentionin whirling usually lasts for 10+ secs it is not absolute. for 10 secs i spam 5 interrupts. 25% chance to hit if of couse i will not run away or heal. Throw dirt harms though.
3 - Diversion do not block skills. Read the description. No builds above hold life Transfer as well.
4 - and u probably fighting in Ascalon with elites and Droknar armor?

Waiting for a reply

P.S. Spam forever.
P.S.S. I wonder if any of the chewed rangers and mesmers reading that, can they confirm?

Manfred · Dec 06, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

at 15 expertise it's 21 seconds i think. Someone needs to do their homework.

Yes, you try and stay still with a bow ranger, I blind you for 14 seconds, by the time it wears off you're dead. If you try and run with a bow ranger, I throw on dodge, and either I manage to kill you, aor I realize halfway through that I won't and jsut go back and kill someone less griefy.

Diversion oh teh noes. If I don't pay attention, you may get one of my touches, other than that I jsut let it go away or get rid of it with throw dirt if i'm in a hurry.

Trapper, lol. Trapper... heheh. You DID notice that plague touch is on the build, right? Someone tries to trap, just alternate plague touch and vampiric touch.

I'm probably fighting in CA, in TA, in GvG and a couple of times in tombs with a pvp character, and I switched my ranger's secondary for a little while just so I could try this out in Sorrow's Furnace.

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 06, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manfred

at 15 expertise it's 21 seconds i think. Someone needs to do their homework.

Yes, you try and stay still with a bow ranger, I blind you for 14 seconds, by the time it wears off you're dead. If you try and run with a bow ranger, I throw on dodge, and either I manage to kill you, aor I realize halfway through that I won't and jsut go back and kill someone less griefy.

Diversion oh teh noes. If I don't pay attention, you may get one of my touches, other than that I jsut let it go away or get rid of it with throw dirt if i'm in a hurry.

Trapper, lol. Trapper... heheh. You DID notice that plague touch is on the build, right? Someone tries to trap, just alternate plague touch and vampiric touch.

I'm probably fighting in CA, in TA, in GvG and a couple of times in tombs with a pvp character, and I switched my ranger's secondary for a little while just so I could try this out in Sorrow's Furnace.

Ahh...Manfred beat me to it.

It is obvious that Al the Dead doesn't pvp much, certainly never encountered a Touch Ranger.

The point about your Vile Touch example Al is simple, you stated the N/W had vile touch and I would be at 50% health before I reached you. A very wild example of nothing. What death spells are going to lower my health by 50% before I reach you? Verata's Sacrifice? Aura of the Lich? Consume Corpse? Death has weak ranged damage other than Deathly Chill and Deadly Swarm, neither of which will reduce me to below 80%. The range of the spells and regular movement speed trash your weak theory. I won't mention casting Life Transfer on your or Dodge to move faster or how damn slow Death's ranged attacks are to cast. This isn't PvE.

The build tears through Warrior armor and when warriors use healing signets they try desperately to spam it. They can't attack since they lose life so fast. Yet this N/W will survive off that same Healing Signet. LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Dead

3 - Diversion do not block skills. Read the description. No builds above hold life Transfer as well.

Diversion
Description: For 6 seconds, the next time target foe uses a skill, that skill takes an additional 10-47 seconds to recharge.

How about YOU read the spell? Diversion's effect will block the use of the spell by the stated duration IF you use it during those 6 seconds Diversion is on you. If the mesmer is targetted I will see them casting Diversion. I wait 6 seconds then carry on. You obviously talk out the side of your face. Also MY build has life transfer and it WAS posted in my post above. READ the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist

16 Expertise
12 Blood
rest who cares

Touch of Agony
Vamp Touch
Throw Dirt
Life Transfer
Plague Touch
Whirling Defense
Dodge
Res Sig

That just about sums up an R/N for 4v4. Some use a pet, some use offering of blood, some use Life Siphon, some use QZ. For me they are all gimped compared.

jibikao · Dec 06, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I love facing a Necro with Aura of the Lich. lol Our touches deal full damage.

I run a pet build with vamp touch. This is my best faction farming build in random/team arena. hehe

Last night I fought quite a few touchy rangers. Luckily I beat them (which took a long time!). Whirling Defense is indeed very annoying since I need my pet to leech energy for me but most touchy rangers use Touch of Agony which hurts them. I don'tl like the idea of losing health.

There are some variations to each Touchy Ranger. Basically, I know ALL R/N Touchy rangers use Vamp Touch. Most use Touch of Agony but some don't. A few use pets (like me).

Al the Dead · Dec 06, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

of course i don't PvP much i don't even have the game

lol
a little step aside from flaming is there any way of dealing with energy draining skills with that build. Not that it kills you but it hurts.

2 manfred I said that dirt hurts thx for confirming that. Diversion usually go unnoticed, why - i don't know. When they do notice it i'm trashed. And i didn't say anything about traps.

BTW any more builds? So far Vexed build seemed most effective even without monk support.

Murder In China · Dec 07, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Dead

ermmm sorry guys but what's so good in that build? i met it numerous times in CA and TA and rarely loosed to it with any of my chars really. Somebody care to explain how to use that .... on arena?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Dead

of course i don't PvP much i don't even have the game lol
a little step aside from flaming is there any way of dealing with energy draining skills with that build. Not that it kills you but it hurts.

So you lied?

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 07, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Serious, constant energy denial can in fact render my version gimp. It won't stop it, but it cripples the damage output per second. However, energy denial does little versus Manfred's version, and many others, that use Offering of Blood. Lucky interrupts and that one wild Diversion that I fail to notice in a flash while "touching" can temporarily gimp any Touch Ranger. They do not, though, stop it. The simple fact is there aren't enough Touch Rangers to warrant building your character in order to stop them. It is a matter of luck. Just understand how to defeat the Touch Ranger, and if you can not, to stay away from them.

The best thing you can do to improve your PvP play is to know and understand the strengths and weaknesses of any and all builds. By playing a build you will best understand the facts in how to defeat it.

Often I have Mesmers casting Backfire and Empathy on me when I play a Touch Ranger. Heck...even Spirit Shackles. This is a waste of time and energy for them. It is obvious that player has no idea how to stop a Touch Ranger. The fact is they probably have nothing on their skill bar to help and should instead be concentrating on someone else.